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09-19-2013, 01:00 AM,
#1
Front End wonder
What causes front end wonder? Put on a new tire and that helped but it is still there just not as bad. It is worse riding 2 up. Tire pressure is normal.
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09-19-2013, 01:50 AM,
#2
RE: Front End wonder
(09-19-2013, 01:00 AM)Scotts1100 Wrote: What causes front end wonder? Put on a new tire and that helped but it is still there just not as bad. It is worse riding 2 up. Tire pressure is normal.
@Scotts1100 I take that by "front end wonder" you mean that there is a vibration/shake coming through the handlebars?

If this is the case then I recommend that you take it back to whoever fitted the tyre and get them to check the following:
1... The tyre is running true on the rim, that is it has seated all the way round on rim.
2... That they actually balanced the wheel/tyre correctly.

It sounds to me that it is a combination of those two things.

Hope this helps?

Gibbo
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09-19-2013, 08:47 AM,
#3
RE: Front End wonder
Front wheel wander is usually caused by trail. If the trail is wrong the bike will not stay straight. I can never remember which way does what but one way causes wander and the other causes hard steering. Riding 2 up with a soft rear shock will make the matter worse as the geometry of the bike changes. Trail gets changed by raking the forks or lowering the rear, etc.. Check that your trail is between 2 and 4 inches.

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09-19-2013, 06:27 PM,
#4
RE: Front End wonder
(09-19-2013, 08:47 AM)colonel Wrote: Front wheel wander is usually caused by trail. If the trail is wrong the bike will not stay straight. I can never remember which way does what but one way causes wander and the other causes hard steering. Riding 2 up with a soft rear shock will make the matter worse as the geometry of the bike changes. Trail gets changed by raking the forks or lowering the rear, etc.. Check that your trail is between 2 and 4 inches.
@colonel I have never heard the term "trail" before. Do you mean wheel alignment by any chance? Just curious as to the terminology not questioning your input.

I agree with you about the rear shock absorber/spring setting. However, @Scotts1100 said this has happened since the fitment of a new tyre and as @commonground has asked, has the wheel been refitted correctly. It could be that the bearings are a little tired, or. and more importantly the new tyre with a lot more grip is showing that maybe there is some wear higher up the forks!

It's a hard thing to try and figure out without actually riding the machine.

Gibbo
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09-19-2013, 08:15 PM,
#5
RE: Front End wonder
I agree with most of what has been said, but first thing first: the new tyre does it match the rear? and is it intalled with the correct rotation direction. a mate intalled his own tyre once agained the direction arrow said it was like having a rollerskate for a wheel.
next pressures are correct, have the wheel ballaced the is some self balancing fluid you can get
http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/tire-b...RIDE-41208
personally I would rather have it done profesionally.
next head steam bearing: get the front wheel of the ground, is the any notches as you turn lock to lock. any freeplay, front to back, left to right,(other than the turn action)
Jmck
Two wheels moves me body and soul Cool
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09-19-2013, 08:23 PM,
#6
RE: Front End wonder
Here is a cool link that explains rake and trail. Make sure the pressure is ok in the rear tire as well. If it's low, you experience those same effects from having bad geometry in the front end.
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09-19-2013, 08:26 PM,
#7
RE: Front End wonder
(09-19-2013, 08:47 AM)colonel Wrote: .... caused by trail.......stay straight........wander......causes hard steering........soft rear shock....geometry...changes....lowering the rear...trail is between 2 and 4 inches.
@colonel: 'The heck is "trail".

BTW, I am destined to "stay straight" as a "front end wonder", and although I leave a nice "trail" view, it's a bit more than 2 to 4 inches, when I lower my rear onto my bike seat! Don't have a soft rear shock, or a shocking soft rear, but my geometry DOES change when I walk, a bit of a wander.....

It's been awhile since I caused a "hard steering" accident, but at the time, if he hadn't been looking at my trail view, he wouldn't have rear-ended the car in front of him...


Just sayin'.
There is great need for a sarcasm font.
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09-19-2013, 08:31 PM,
#8
RE: Front End wonder
@snaykbyte that was like poetry!
2007 v star 650 Classic, raven with ghost flames
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09-19-2013, 09:33 PM,
#9
RE: Front End wonder
(09-19-2013, 09:08 PM)commonground Wrote: @SnaykByte That's a tough post to respond to without getting into trouble. So no response other than I went back through your pictures. Wink @jhennly Thanks for the article. It went into my archives. I did not know what rake and trail were. Also, @Scotts1100 another thing that happened recently, I can't recall the post but, someone had a rear tire on the front of the bike and had strange problems.
it was me with a dulope 404 rear fitted to the front, it was all good for a long time but then it started to cup
http://www.vstarforum.com/Tire-cupping-T...ht=cupping
and that made it woble more than wonder.
but I still stand by what I said earlier
Jmck
Two wheels moves me body and soul Cool
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09-19-2013, 10:19 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-19-2013, 10:19 PM by OldePhart.)
#10
RE: Front End wonder
I'm no expert on bike setup but I just wanted to note that several people seem to have overlooked that the original post stated that the new front tire made the situation better, it just didn't cure it completely. Therefore, logic says it's probably not caused by the front tire or the installation of the front tire (unless the previous tire was also incorrect or installed incorrectly, which I suppose is possible).

From what little I do know of suspension systems (more experience with 4 wheels than 2) I'm with the colonel in suspecting something wrong at the back end. Typically bearing and balance problems in the front wheels are wont to cause a rapid shimmy in the steering (again, we're talking cars) while alignment problems in the rear are really magnified by changes in load. I bought a used car once that drove beautifully until you went through a dip or bump - when weight came off the wheels a little the car would swerve like you wouldn't believe. Had it happen on a gentle dip at freeway speeds on wet roads and almost lost control of the car . Took it to the shop and it turned out to be a bent link on the rear suspension that had pulled the rear wheels out of alignment. Running straight you could take your hands off the steering wheel and the car would track straight as an arrow but hit a bump and it wanted to go anywhere but straight.

JOhn
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
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09-19-2013, 11:46 PM,
#11
RE: Front End wonder
(09-19-2013, 09:08 PM)commonground Wrote: @SnaykByte That's a tough post to respond to without getting into trouble. So no response other than I went back through your pictures. Wink
Awe @commonground, just couldn't take the bait, eh? Just having a little fun. Ya'll are too easy. Don't want to intimidate you, you know?
There is great need for a sarcasm font.
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09-20-2013, 12:04 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-20-2013, 12:07 AM by jmck.)
#12
RE: Front End wonder
@OldePhart you reminded me. a loose front end is the first sign of low pressure in the rear tire, not sure if I would describe it as wondering though @Scotts1100 have you checked the rear pressure
always start at the simplest possible solution

edit
sorry didn't see @jhennly has already stated that
Jmck
Two wheels moves me body and soul Cool
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09-20-2013, 02:04 AM,
#13
RE: Front End wonder
The problem is that it wants to follow the tracks in the road .It don't shimmy persay just wants to follow the car track in the road. It also feels hard to bring back up after a tight turn. Like a u turn on a narrow 2 lane road. The tire that I put on was a Bridgestone and a mate to the back . I read some where that it could be caused by the bearings in the steering neck. I have tried to increase and decrease the tire pressure. But no Change. I will have to study the rear shock and adjustment. The previous owner may have been heavier on lighter than I am. Thanks for all the input.
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09-20-2013, 02:36 AM,
#14
RE: Front End wonder
I guess one other thing to consider is the correct fitment of the front axle
Jmck
Two wheels moves me body and soul Cool
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09-20-2013, 10:19 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-21-2013, 08:30 PM by OldePhart.)
#15
RE: Front End wonder
@Scotts1100 is this the first bike you've owned that has a relatively fat front tire? In general, bikes with a front tire that is wide tend to handle more "heavily" than bikes with narrower rubber and that, more than wander, seems to be what you just described in the last post. I had a friend that had an 1100 until recently and that was one thing he commented on was how it didn't seem to want to respond to steering as he was used to even on the Goldwings that he'd ridden for years. It was his first cruiser, though, and I chalked the comment up to that.

Speaking of which, if it's your first cruiser and you're comparing it to previous bikes you've owned keep in mind that even small cruisers like my 650 Custom, which has a relatively thin front tire, are lumbering great yachts compared to even traditional street bikes, let alone something from the sport bike or dual-sport family.

Of course, with something as critical as handling I'd still recommend getting it checked by a pro if you're not comfortable on it...

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
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