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07-18-2014, 05:10 PM,
#1
Bike should be fixed Monday
My bike's been in the shop since the 10th for warranty work on the check engine light. I talked to the shop Wednesday and they said they'd finally found the problem (they had finally broken down and begun swapping parts with a new bike off the floor since none of the diagnostic procedures from the manual were helpful) but they had to order the part from Yamaha and it was back ordered - meaning it has to come from Japan.

I wasn't too pleased about that and I guess it showed...

Anyway, the shop manager just called and said that Yamaha is expediting the part directly to his shop, bypassing the usual route through Yamaha US, and it should be in Monday morning.

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
07-18-2014, 05:21 PM,
#2
RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
What was the bad part?
Sent from my HTC X8 Windows Phone using Tapatalk
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07-18-2014, 07:57 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-18-2014, 08:05 PM by OldePhart.)
#3
RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
Believe it or not, the instrument cluster. In 2005 they added an additional wire going to the ECU from the pulse off the speedometer that was already used for the self-cancelling turn signals. Apparently they use the pulse to get the bikes speed and use that in some calculation in the ECU, now. That's probably why I was getting such lousy highway mileage.

There are some things that still bother me about this, though.

1) The light coming on is related to both speed and temperature. I.e. it always came on instantly at about 55-60. However, if I rode the bike a long time the light would come on even when the bike was moving slower or, on a couple of occasions, not at all. I.e. when I went to OK after riding on the highway at 70 for a couple of hours I stopped for gas and the light came on seconds after I restarted the bike, before I'd even started moving. Also, I rode around town in low gears one day to simulate highway riding for about 40 minutes and the light came on.

2) The sending unit from the cluster is almost certainly nothing but a magnet and a hall effect sensor - that's unlikely to get hotter because the bike is being ridden for a long time - AND - that sort of sensor is unlikely to be temperature sensitive. I could see it being speed sensitive, but not temperature sensitive.

3) Because of items 1 and 2 I suspect that there are actually two problems, with the cluster being the obvious one that is going to get fixed and the other being almost certainly a bad ECU that is getting worse (fairly rapid decline is the typical case for electronic parts that begin showing heat related symptoms). The heat related problem COULD be the turn signal flasher failing (and thus placing a higher load on the pulse because it is an electronic flasher). However, as the simpler device mounted further from the engine heat this wouldn't be my first guess.

The warranty expires in a couple of weeks, so as soon as I get the bike back I am going to have to make the time to go for a lengthy ride, maybe up into OK again or AR. If the CE light comes on when it's hot I'll know I still have a far more serious problem than the one that is going to get fixed Monday. If it doesn't come on it will be one of those head-scratcher things, it won't be the first of those that I've encountered working with electronics. LOL

John

Oh...and if the light does only come on when the bike has been warmed up really good on the highway it's probably not going to get fixed because the dealer guys aren't going to be able to swap parts and ride it to OK to see if it's fixed...

Prior to 2005 the CE light didn't show codes. The 2005 manual (the one where the schematic shows that the pulse from the speedometer is being sent to the ECU) indicates that the bike is supposed to flash the error code on the CE light when the bike is turned on, before it is started. It never has, and that was one of the reasons I thought that manual supplement was only for California bikes. Obviously, since the bike shop swapped the cluster and rode the bike and it apparently fixed the issue, the supplement is for all bikes, which means the ECU should be showing engine codes. That gives me one more reason to question if the ECU is bad...

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
07-19-2014, 10:36 AM,
#4
RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
wow, well at least temps are going back up next week so will help with hotter air in warming it up quicker. wonder why they couldn just pull the cluster off the bike off the floor too, then new part comes in put it on the floor model.
2006 VStar Stratoliner, Freedom Performance split dual exhaust, Mustang seats, Sissy bar with back rack, bolted saddlebags to mounts.
Life's tough .. it's even tougher if you're stupid. - John Wayne

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07-19-2014, 01:38 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-19-2014, 01:39 PM by OldePhart.)
#5
RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
(07-19-2014, 10:36 AM)Keith Wrote: wonder why they couldn just pull the cluster off the bike off the floor too, then new part comes in put it on the floor model.

I wouldn't really expect that - at least not when I didn't purchase the bike there. They have no real incentive to disable stock on their floor plan and potentially lose a sale when I'm not really their customer. Now, if they had done that...that would have been superb dealer service and would pretty much guarantee that they'd get my business when I buy my next bike! Realistically, they probably will anyway, but that would have assured it. LOL

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
07-19-2014, 02:14 PM,
#6
RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
Out of curiosity @OldePhart have you gotten any coupons from the dealership or from Yamaha? I've gotten one for $50 from Yamaha and a couple $10 from the dealership. I take mine in next Tuesday for 8,000 mile service and will use the Yamaha coupon.

Augie
Never tell someone more than they are willing to hear.
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07-19-2014, 03:17 PM,
#7
RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
(07-19-2014, 02:14 PM)commonground Wrote: Out of curiosity @OldePhart have you gotten any coupons from the dealership or from Yamaha? I've gotten one for $50 from Yamaha and a couple $10 from the dealership. I take mine in next Tuesday for 8,000 mile service and will use the Yamaha coupon.

Augie

Nothing from the dealer I bought it from. I did get a coupon or two in eMail from Yamaha. I guess I ought to check my old mail folder to see if it's still there. I didn't think to use it when I had the initial service done. I'm not much of a couponer, I'm afraid.

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
07-19-2014, 05:04 PM,
#8
RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
I'm not much for coupons either but, for $50 I'll break out the scissors. Wink

I can't wrap my head around how the instrument cluster could effect your mileage. I must have missed that part of the seminar. Confused
Never tell someone more than they are willing to hear.
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07-19-2014, 05:32 PM,
#9
RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
(07-19-2014, 05:04 PM)commonground Wrote: I can't wrap my head around how the instrument cluster could effect your mileage. I must have missed that part of the seminar. Confused

It's an input to the ECU. What they use it for there I have no idea, but since the ECU controls the timing and timing advance anything that is an input to the ECU could potentially affect mileage.

I guess in 2005 they fiddled with the programming of the ECU and added that signal from the speedo for whatever reason - probably emissions.

At 70 I was getting about 40mpg - that's only a shade better than my cage...

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
07-21-2014, 08:38 PM,
#10
RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
Bob called from the shop today...the part from Yamaha didn't come in and they didn't even get a regular shipment of parts from Yamaha that was supposed to come in today. Crossing fingers for tomorrow... Sad

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
07-21-2014, 09:55 PM,
#11
Bike should be fixed Monday
(07-21-2014, 08:38 PM)OldePhart Wrote: Bob called from the shop today...the part from Yamaha didn't come in and they didn't even get a regular shipment of parts from Yamaha that was supposed to come in today. Crossing fingers for tomorrow... Sad

John

Wow
How frustrating
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07-22-2014, 09:04 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-22-2014, 09:05 AM by Keith.)
#12
RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
jeez, know its like COME ON!

missed out on the really great riding weather last week and weekend, now back in 100+.
2006 VStar Stratoliner, Freedom Performance split dual exhaust, Mustang seats, Sissy bar with back rack, bolted saddlebags to mounts.
Life's tough .. it's even tougher if you're stupid. - John Wayne

Reply
07-28-2014, 02:39 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-28-2014, 02:41 PM by OldePhart.)
#13
Emoticon_unhappy  RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
Picking the bike up this afternoon...sadly NOT because it's fixed, but because there is no telling when it might be. Talked to the shop this morning and the part status from Yamaha has gone from "in transit" back to "back ordered." Angry This is certainly no way to run any kind of business. Promise to deliver the part direct, fail in that promise, show the part "in transit" for two weeks, then go back to "back ordered." It's a shame, because I like the bike, and I'd still like the option of upgrading to a 1300, but at this point the chance I'll ever purchase another Yamaha product is rapidly approaching zero.

The shop gave me the part number and a quick google search reveals that there are online retailers showing it in stock for immediate delivery...so apparently Yamaha doesn't have any problem providing the part to those willing to pay $450 for it, they just can't seem to find one to replace under warranty. Angry

I'm definitely calling Yamaha's "customer relations" today...but I need to cool down a bit first...

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
07-28-2014, 02:46 PM,
#14
RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
jeez, yep that is just wrong! i went from kaw to yam cause had issue getting parts for older model kaw, plenty of parts for older yam.
2006 VStar Stratoliner, Freedom Performance split dual exhaust, Mustang seats, Sissy bar with back rack, bolted saddlebags to mounts.
Life's tough .. it's even tougher if you're stupid. - John Wayne

Reply
07-28-2014, 05:25 PM,
#15
RE: Bike should be fixed Monday
Yeah, it's not even an issue of being parts for an older model. The same part is used from 2005-2014 models. The bottom line is that Yamaha had one for my bike and promised to ship it direct but they diverted it to a money-paying parts house instead of to my warranty repair and now it is showing back ordered with an expected delivery in late September. Personally, I think Yamaha USA knows that the speedometer problem is probably masking a more serious problem with the ECU (i.e. the temperature sensitive issue where the light comes on as soon as the bike has been started when it is warmed up good from running down the highway for a couple of hours, even in cool weather). I'm guessing that they figure that problem won't be detected until after the warranty expires on Aug 27th if they can delay the fix.

I've said it once and I'll keep saying it - I like the bike and I'm not upset that the bike had a problem, it can happen to any company; a company is measured not by whether they never have problems but by how they respond when there is a problem. At this point, Yamaha flat sucks in that department, IMHO. They've lost a very probable sale of a 1300 over a $450 part. They also cost a good dealership that sale (though if I decide to go with two bikes and add a BMW GS model the dealership will get that sale).

Oh well, at least the bike is back in my hands and is running great, other than that the stupid light keeps coming on at about 55. The light is not really an issue except that I think the bad pulse off the speedometer may be affecting my highway mileage. If it doesn't affect the ignition timing then there is no reason for that signal to go to the ECU to begin with.

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
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