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09-19-2014, 07:40 PM,
#1
CC on MC?
Those of you carrying concealed on the bike, what are you carrying and how are you carrying it? I've been giving this a lot of thought, lately, for some unfathomable reason... Sleepy

Frankly, I can't imagine a circumstance under which I would pull my weapon while riding...the chances of hitting anything...well, anything I'm aiming at...while also trying to ride evasively are simply too near zero to contemplate (in spite of what Hollywood would have us believe). I used to shoot action pistol competitively (amateur) and I know how much concentration and control are required to be effective with a full-sized handgun with both feet on the ground and no other distractions. On the other hand, if something bad happens and I can't deescalate or evade (entirely possible on the under-geared 650 with its top speed of about 95) I want to be able to stop quickly, abandon the bike, and try for cover while having access to my weapon.

The bottom line, though, is that I don't really expect anything like that to happen and I am getting my CHL primarily because I don't want to have to leave a weapon in the saddle bags when I leave the bike while traveling; they lock, but someone could be in them in 20 seconds with heavy sheers.

I really don't like having potential bone-breaking, kidney pummeling objects on my body when riding...in fact my cell phone, wallet, keys, etc. all go in the bags or windshield pouches unless I'm just running down the block to the corner store or something. I was thinking I'd carry in the side pocket of my large tank bag especially when touring since my camera, iPad, phone, etc. will be in the bag and go with me when I get off the bike, anyway.

However, I got to thinking about it and if I do get punted off the bike by an SUV I'd rather not have some kid find my magnetic tank bag in the ditch the next day and find the cool "toy" gun... I'd rather the paramedics or cops find the gun on me or what's left of me.

So, all that brings me back to the original question, what and how are you carrying? How have you decided to balance danger to bones and organs from having a chunk of steel strapped to your body vs. security of the weapon and access to it (the last assuming that you are at a stop for whatever reason and have at least some chance of fending off an aggressor rather than taking out the bystander two blocks away)...

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
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09-19-2014, 08:03 PM,
#2
RE: CC on MC?
well if wearing jacket, shoulder holster for left hand draw, otherwise make sure have a long shirt and iwb holster small of back, 2 diff items to go in them, shoulder is a 92, back is a nano, which can also go into a pocket but much more difficult to extract from there. nano can also fit into a zippered jacket pocket also, really like the nano for cc, rounded edges all over so less chance of snagging on anything. at the same time my 92 am very accurate with it, helps being much longer barrel and well over 1000 rounds with her, but at the same time have had her for many years, nano only going on 2.
2006 VStar Stratoliner, Freedom Performance split dual exhaust, Mustang seats, Sissy bar with back rack, bolted saddlebags to mounts.
Life's tough .. it's even tougher if you're stupid. - John Wayne

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09-20-2014, 12:15 AM,
#3
RE: CC on MC?
Thanks guys. I'm probably going to need to get a smaller gun for carry. I'm a fairly big guy and I think with the right holster I could probably conceal either my full-size Glock 22C or my Para Ordinance LDA (also in 40) at 4 o'clock under a loose shirt - I can almost hide the Glock under a fairly snug shirt though it prints more than I like from the back because of the thick butt (the gun's, not mine Wink ). I don't think I'd want to carry the LDA on the bike even if I could conceal it because it's got an exaggerated beaver tail that looks like it was designed to scoop vital organs out of tumbling bikers...

All of that is standing or sitting upright, though. On the bike even on a cruiser I lean forward enough that I'd have to have a pretty long jacket, my current mesh jacket is snug and short enough to definitely ride up. It would be okay in Texas, I guess, because technically if the holster shows but the gun doesn't you are legal, but I plan on traveling on the bike and some states treat a holster showing as brandishing - besides, not all the cops really know the CC laws so I'd rather not go attracting their attention unnecessarily.

I really prefer 40 over 9mm, and love Glock because I know how to do action jobs on them that make the triggers really smooth (I've also fired many thousands of rounds out of Glocks back when I was competing). But, Glocks are thick and besides I'm not crazy about the Glock 27. The thick but short grip doesn't feel as good in my hand as either the full size Glocks or other compact pistols with narrower grips...I know that flies in the face of conventional wisdom but when I can't get three fingers on the grip a fat grip actually feels worse to me than a narrow one. I might be able to adjust to it if I put enough rounds through one, though.

Even though I prefer 40 I may end up going to a Ruger LC9s (the new striker-fired one with the better trigger). I got to handle one yesterday and it really felt good in my hand and the trigger was very acceptable right out of the box. Not as good as a slicked-up Glock but better than a stock Glock. I wish Ruger made an LC40s, though.

I had a Kahr K40 years ago when they first came out and wish I still had it. I can't say it was a joy to shoot but it was heavy enough to tame the 40 a little and it had a nice trigger that felt much like my slicked up model 19 revolver. They're a bit out of my price range now, though, at twice what the Ruger or Glock go for.

There are several ranges here that rent guns...I guess I'll call around and try to line up some rentals so I can put a box or two of ammo through the G27, Ruger LC9s, and maybe the M&P Shield in 40 and 9mm. I wasn't even tempted by the Shield because I had a S&W 9mm DA/SA back in the day and absolutely hated it...never could get used to the tons of creep in the SA pull. But, I've heard that the striker-fired Shield has a decent trigger so I guess I should see if I can find one to shoot before plunking down my money.

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
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09-20-2014, 09:25 AM,
#4
Re: CC on MC?
My reasons for having a concealed pistol license isn't for defense while moving, I'm more concerned about being approached while at a stop (good ol' Detroit!). With that in mind, if I'm wearing a jacket I'm usually wearing a shoulder holster. Barsony makes a pretty nice/comfortable nylon rig for just about any common gun, I think mine was about $50 through Amazon.

If riding sans jacket, I'm using a hybrid IWB holster from Everyday Holsters at 3-4 o'clock. Shirt conceals it just fine and I really don't care if I "print" through my shirt. 75% of the time I'm carrying a SCCY CPX-2, a nice compact 9mm for under $300. The other 25% is a Ruger SP101 with some very hot 38 specials loaded up, also in a hybrid IWB at 3-4 o'clock.
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09-20-2014, 12:15 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-20-2014, 12:48 PM by OldePhart.)
#5
RE: CC on MC?
(09-20-2014, 07:34 AM)commonground Wrote: One of the reasons that I don't switch when I ride is, I want everything the same and in the same place, no matter where I am or what I'm doing. That familiarity is critical.
That's a good point, and something I'd been considering. I'd thought about an ankle/boot carry for the bike but I would never carry that way off the bike so I'd pretty much eliminated that option. If I can find a good gun & canted IWB holster combo that is comfortable at about 3:30 I'm leaning toward that. It has to work in the car, on the bike, and walking. Cross draw is great in the car and probably on the bike...but I'm not crazy about cross draw otherwise; mostly because it's difficult to respond to a potentially escalating situation without telegraphing what you're doing and potentially escalating it more.
Quote: I would never carry at the 6:00 o'clock position because I value my spine too much. A fall can easily disable you.
Yep, I had already ruled out SOB for sure!

Quote:Also, while the nine doesn't make as big a hole as the .40, it's not the size of the hole, it's putting multiple shots in the same area.
It really doesn't matter what caliber you miss with.

Heh, heh. When I used to shoot a lot of action pistol we used to say "you can't miss fast enough to win." I consider 9mm about the minimum useful caliber for self defense but my objection to the 9mm if I have to go there isn't so much the reduced "stopping power" as the fact that then I have to pick up reloading dies for another caliber, find through trial and error a good range load that will throw to the same place as my commercial carry ammo, etc., etc.

Although, I do prefer having as much energy as I can handle and the 40 puts significantly more energy down range than the 9mm. We shot a lot of falling plates that were calibrated so they were supposed to fall to "major" loads and remain standing to "minor" loads. (This "calibration" is pretty loose, but that's the theory.) Factory loads from my .357 would put them down reliably. Even +P loads in the 9mm I had would only put the plate down if you hit in the top 1/3rd. Even the semi-pro guys using 9mm super that just barely made major didn't always get the plates to fall.

The first time I shot the plates with the .40 I actually had a couple of them slam down so hard that they bounced back up. All of us were amazed (this was when the .40 was first introduced and I had the first one in the club). The .45 guys were just shaking their heads and saying "I ain't never..." LOL

When I was shooting regularly I could reliably put 10 rounds from my magna-ported Glock model 22 into a 6" circle at 15 yards firing about as fast as the trigger reset. I actually hadn't shot in a few years up until Wednesday and I definitely can't do that with the .40 anymore but I probably couldn't do it with a 9mm, either. I'm going to have to get to know the guys at the range really well over the next few weeks. Blush

In the end if I drop back to the 9mm it will probably be because I can't find a compact .40 that is comfortable to wear and shoot and affordable (I've owned a Kahr K40 and would absolutely love another but I just can't drop almost a grand into a pistol at this point).

John

(09-20-2014, 09:25 AM)indie_rocker Wrote: If riding sans jacket, I'm using a hybrid IWB holster from Everyday Holsters at 3-4 o'clock. Shirt conceals it just fine and I really don't care if I "print" through my shirt. 75% of the time I'm carrying a SCCY CPX-2, a nice compact 9mm for under $300. The other 25% is a Ruger SP101 with some very hot 38 specials loaded up, also in a hybrid IWB at 3-4 o'clock.

I'll check out that holster, for sure - is the cant adjustable? I've been looking at the White Hat Holsters hybrid IWB holsters because the cant is very adjustable and also they're local. They are also said to work closely with folks on custom requests and being local there's a good chance I could get them to provide a slightly larger, stiffer backing to spread impact force more in case I'm punted off the bike.

Re the SP101 - great gun. I never owned one but have shot friends' SP101s before. I'm really a DA revolver guy (started with a S&W Model 19 .357) and my semi-auto preferences reflect that heritage. It's how I ended up shooting Glocks when the .40 came out. The Glock trigger was the closest thing I could find at the time to the double-action pull of my bobbed and slicked k-frame. I actually considered the SP-101 hammerless snubby but, at least on my frame, it's only a little more concealable than a Glock 23...unless I went cross draw and I've pretty much eliminated that. Besides, at the price of one I'd probably just spend another couple-hundred and get a Kahr K40, again. I still cuss myself every time I think about having gotten rid of that gun... Sad

Hmmmm..."talking" this out has been helpful. I hadn't really even considered a G23 but...given that I can almost conceal the G22, a magna-ported G23 might be worth a really hard look...unlike the G27 the G23 has a long enough barrel to make porting a viable option. Something to chew on, anyway.

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
09-20-2014, 01:38 PM,
#6
RE: CC on MC?
well if you are stuck on 40 try out the beretta px4 storm, then the compact kahr 40, and don't rule out the springfield xd line, hear good reports/reviews on all 3. but if try 9 def try the nano, they put a lot of thought into the build of it, excellent little cc. but with talk of the diff rounds, read a article some do not advise going below 9mm, yet a 380 is a necked down 9mm and many law enforcement have it for backup, then reportedly one rebel force kept the russian army back with mainly the 22lr going for neck and head shots very effective and you can carry a lot of ammunition with less weight. i loaded up a bunch of 9 with 147 jhp and made them some hot loads, bet they would nock down the plates no issue, now the much more easily available 115gr load bet that one would have to hit the top.

http://www.texasguntrader.com/index.php?a=2&b=600853
http://www.texasguntrader.com/index.php?a=2&b=601734
http://www.texasguntrader.com/index.php?a=2&b=601680
http://dallas.texasguntrader.com/index.php?a=2&b=596760
http://dallas.texasguntrader.com/index.php?a=2&b=595331
2006 VStar Stratoliner, Freedom Performance split dual exhaust, Mustang seats, Sissy bar with back rack, bolted saddlebags to mounts.
Life's tough .. it's even tougher if you're stupid. - John Wayne

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09-20-2014, 03:11 PM,
#7
RE: CC on MC?
I wouldn't want to be shot by a .380...but I wouldn't want to trust my life to one, either, unless I simply couldn't carry and control something larger. A 22-short can kill, but, depending on the constitution and mind set of the assailant, it's quite likely that he may clean your clock before he bleeds out. The same applies to a .380, .32 ACP, etc. To be fair, the same can happen with heavier calibers, it's just far less likely.

Defensive rounds are designed to penetrate 11" to 15" of gel regardless of caliber. Ammunition has improved astoundingly over the last 20 years, and it's probably not unfair to say that some .380 defensive loads probably approach the performance of 9mm loads of twenty years ago. Likewise, I know some modern 9mm +P offerings approach the lower end of the .40 in terminal performance.

Even given all that, though, if I could shoot it fast and accurately, and conceal it, I'd be shooting S&W 500 or .454 Casull...but, I've found that a .40 or .357 is about the most I can shoot rapidly and accurately.

So, while I wouldn't feel at all "under gunned" carrying a 9mm with a good defensive load I'd still prefer my .40. With the plethora of really good 9mm pistols that are as easily concealed as a decent .380 I'm unlikely to look at the latter unless I lose about 90 pounds and have a body so thin I can't conceal even a 9mm. The likelihood of that weight loss happening is somewhere south of zero. Biggrin

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
09-20-2014, 04:29 PM,
#8
RE: CC on MC?
yeah, the nano is said to only shoot the heavier rounds due to the heavier spring as it was originally designed to be a 40. they recommend the 147gr, but goodtogoammo.com believes his 124gr would function fine in it and stated that most prefer that one over the 115 as they said the felt recoil was less. yep have a s&w 19 6" nickel within arms reach right now, one of 92's is my bedtime companion. was former ffl and collector, had numerous 40's just went with 9 as it can be had worldwide if needed and much more plentiful for parts and ammo, much less i have reloaded it for about 30 years.
2006 VStar Stratoliner, Freedom Performance split dual exhaust, Mustang seats, Sissy bar with back rack, bolted saddlebags to mounts.
Life's tough .. it's even tougher if you're stupid. - John Wayne

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09-20-2014, 06:27 PM,
#9
RE: CC on MC?
yeah do like some of the comments, have to be careful where you carry, most companies and buildings do not allow you, my question to those buildings and employers, so you are guaranteeing my safety at work from any possible threat that could cause me death or on the way to my transportation or on the way to home as you are not allowing me to carry?
2006 VStar Stratoliner, Freedom Performance split dual exhaust, Mustang seats, Sissy bar with back rack, bolted saddlebags to mounts.
Life's tough .. it's even tougher if you're stupid. - John Wayne

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09-20-2014, 07:13 PM, (This post was last modified: 09-20-2014, 07:33 PM by OldePhart.)
#10
RE: CC on MC?
Yeah...you definitely have to put in the time to peak up your SA...a gun won't do you any good if you don't have a lot of SA and common sense to go with it.

One line from that article caught my attention, though: McCann pulled out his pistol and shot the suspect approximately three times in the abdomen.

I don't think I've ever heard of someone being shot approximately three times...okay...maybe if we're talking about a shotgun and the shooter leaves the scene...but with a pistol and the shooter remaining on scene and still you only have a rough idea how many times the perp was shot? Dodgy

John

(09-20-2014, 06:27 PM)Keith Wrote: yeah do like some of the comments, have to be careful where you carry, most companies and buildings do not allow you, my question to those buildings and employers, so you are guaranteeing my safety at work from any possible threat that could cause me death or on the way to my transportation or on the way to home as you are not allowing me to carry?

In Texas it is legal to keep your gun in a car in the parking lot of any building EXCEPT on federal property (like the Post Office, for example). Last year the Texas legislature specifically addressed colleges that were attempting to make it illegal for students to keep a handgun in their car parked on campus and basically told the colleges they can't do that, and that they can't make promising not to do that a condition of enrollment (I'm not sure if that last part covers schools that receive absolutely no public funding, gov't secured loans, etc.)

They also removed several types of buildings, like churches, from the automatic no-carry list so now in Texas if your church doesn't want you carrying they have to post the 30.06 signage. I don't think I'd be inclined to attend a church with 30.06 signage even if I wasn't planning to ever carry or get a license...just ornery that way.

An outdoor area like a sidewalk or parking lot cannot be posted with 30.06 signage ("no carry permitted"), either. In Texas "premises" is legally defined as the building or parts of a building, not the parking lots, sidewalks, etc.

Now, in Texas an employer can make keeping a weapon in your locked car in the parking lot a firing offense but that is all they can do...you can't be arrested for it or anything like that. Honestly, most employers don't do that, at least nobody I know has to deal with that and I know several people who carry and work in hospitals and public schools. Somebody asked a question about that in the class Thursday and the instructor said he only knew of two large employers in the area that prevented employees from having a weapon in their car in the parking lot and both were out-of-state companies with offices here. Basically, if you secure the gun out of sight in the car as it should be the employer is never going to know, anyway.

I work for a company based in NY and they don't have any policy against guns in the parking lot, though I think guns are not permitted indoors. I don't think we have 30.06 signage up (we did in the old building) so I'll have to check the employee manual now that I'm getting my CHL and see if they address it there. I know we have at least one person who carries in the building but he is a reserve LEO.

Of course, I rarely go into the office anyway so it's not a major issue for me.

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
09-21-2014, 02:40 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-21-2014, 02:41 AM by indie_rocker.)
#11
Re: CC on MC?
@OldePhart the holsters are adjustable for cant. You can also pay a little extra for the stiffer horsehide leather and thicker kydex. They have a lifetime warranty, based in Kentucky I think. I have three of them, lol. One each for a CPX-2, J-frame (works with the SP-101 as well) and a S&W SD9VE. They are comperable to the Galco King Tuk I have for an officer sized 1911 for about $25 less.

http://www.everydayholsters.com/collecti...tuk-deluxe
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09-21-2014, 02:49 PM,
#12
RE: CC on MC?
(09-21-2014, 07:48 AM)commonground Wrote: The 'In The Waistband' (IWB) holster gives the best concealment but, the bulk inside of your belt is a big consideration. I recently lost 12 pounds and now have more room in the waistband of my jeans. Now my IWB holster is much more comfortable. It takes about two belt holes to accommodate it. An elastic waistband on the pants would help. Dodgy

I've lost about 35-40 lbs myself and most of my pants have ample room for an IWB holster now...in fact if I don't wear a belt I can walk right out of most of my pants except I usually trip when they get down around my ankles. Also, most of my shirts are now loose enough to conceal an IWB, and my Hawaiian shirts could probably conceal my AR-15... LOL

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
09-22-2014, 08:26 AM,
#13
CC on MC?
I carry an XDS 9mm in an OWB hybrid all the time. With an untucked t-shirt it conceals fine. I don't care if I print a little when I bend over to get something.
It's a sweet shooter!
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09-22-2014, 08:35 AM, (This post was last modified: 09-22-2014, 08:36 AM by dman17ford.)
#14
Re: CC on MC?
I carry a glock 23+ spare mag. In homemade crossbreed style iwb holster. No issues riding to work daily, though I usually slip my shirt under the rear clip, sometimes the wind will blow it a bit.

[Image: eed77d508354fde2d5dc05f3c537e47b.jpg]
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09-22-2014, 10:04 AM,
#15
RE: CC on MC?
I am so familiar with Glocks that the more I think about it the more I am leaning really hard toward either a magna-ported G27 or a G26. The Pierce +1 magazine extension on either will provide room for my third finger and a grip pretty close to what I'm used to. I was thinking the G27 was a 3" barrel but it's a 3.5" and that is long enough to magna-port and still have an effective barrel length of about 2.5"; a little on the short side for a .40, but not terribly so and the ballistic performance should still be a bit better than an unported 9mm with a 3.5" barrel.

I've fired many thousands of rounds from Glocks in simulated combat situations and the more I think about it the more I think it would be extraordinarily foolish to ignore that experience and switch to a different platform without a very, very good reason. The LC9s I handled was a sweet little gun, and I was really tempted by it, but I would have to put many hundreds of rounds through it to achieve the level of familiarity I already have with the Glock platforms. In fact, unless I can find and join a club with their own facilities that permit practice of real skills like draw from holster, rapid fire, moving targets, etc. I could probably never achieve the level of familiarity with some other gun that I already have with Glocks and DA revolvers.

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
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