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12-15-2014, 10:23 PM,
#1
Carb change after AIs removal.
Hi All,

I have recently installed the Barron's AIS removal kit. Went well, took about 90 minutes. Finally went for a ride after the mod and found that the exhaust note was very very different. Odd, in fact I was looking around to see if an old school bus was near me.

The bike has a Stage One jet kit and Cobra 2;2 pipes with custom made baffles. The baffles are short versions of Cobra super quiets.

The bike was running really sweat with the AIS lines just plugged, but fully removed is really different.

Have I missed a vacuum hose or is there something electrical required to be moved. Have any of you done the Barron's removal and found that the tune needed changing?

Thanks all, just trying to get my head around what to do next.

John.
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12-16-2014, 10:33 AM,
#2
RE: Carb change after AIs removal.
Hi All,

I spent a little bit of time this afternoon looking at possible issues and why the odd sound could be heard.

All lines checked out OK. No leaks from the Barron's plugs.

it was then that i sat there listening and isolating the issue. The bike is now running a little richer, well not so much richer, but the pipes are definitely running wetter with more condensation coming out of them. the sound i hear is actually the baffles themselves. with each firing cycles the pipes are letting out a whistle. the baffles I made are pipes with 100's of 8mm holes and an end cap to force the exhaust gasses around then through the 8mm holes.

the sound is like blowing across the opening of an old glass coke bottle. the "Whirp Wihistle" you hear, but short and sharp and only at idle.

now to balance the carbs and reset the idle mixture.

John.
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12-16-2014, 10:50 AM,
#3
RE: Carb change after AIs removal.
Okay, that would do it. It sounds like you need to add a resonator at the end of the pipes. Lots of guys drill out the end baffle on pipes and think they're getting great sound because it's loud but in fact it tends to be a raspy and "rattely" sound because the holes (usually two or three) are too small and the plate is too close to the tip of the pipe so there is no resonant cavity to mellow out the sound.

On commercial pipes with baffles the holes are usually kept to the forward end of the final tube so that the last half of the tube acts like a resonator to deepen and smooth the exhaust note. Alternately, a fiberglass packed cavity is used to achieve the same result.

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
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12-17-2014, 02:02 AM,
#4
RE: Carb change after AIs removal.
i shure would like to see your baffles. im extending the length of my drag pipes and i want to make something i can slide in and quiet em up.
LoLrcycle rider Cool
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12-17-2014, 06:53 AM,
#5
RE: Carb change after AIs removal.
(12-16-2014, 10:50 AM)OldePhart Wrote: Okay, that would do it. It sounds like you need to add a resonator at the end of the pipes. Lots of guys drill out the end baffle on pipes and think they're getting great sound because it's loud but in fact it tends to be a raspy and "rattely" sound because the holes (usually two or three) are too small and the plate is too close to the tip of the pipe so there is no resonant cavity to mellow out the sound.

On commercial pipes with baffles the holes are usually kept to the forward end of the final tube so that the last half of the tube acts like a resonator to deepen and smooth the exhaust note. Alternately, a fiberglass packed cavity is used to achieve the same result.

John
Thanks John,

That is basically what i have built. the pipes are cobra's. i spent hours turning up collars on the lathe then inner tubes with end caps and a wool packed chamber. They are like a shorter version of the cobra super quiet baffles. I did order the baffles from cobra but they did not fit the pipes, the joys of buying a second hand bike and not really knowing what the model of the pipes truly are. But, you just have to cop that stuff on the chin. So in the end the i have reduce the DB out put a long way from where it was when I bought the bike. i no longer have the neighbour coming out for a look at whats going on.

Been riding the bike with these baffles and the AIs hoses plugged for a few 100 miles. Only since removing the AIS totally and installing the barron's plug kit has the whistle started.

so it is really odd.

I have made up a carby balancer tool today and will look at syncing the carbs over the next few days then work on the idle mixture.

John.
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12-17-2014, 09:53 AM,
#6
RE: Carb change after AIs removal.
(12-17-2014, 02:02 AM)Mr RCOM Wrote: i shure would like to see your baffles. im extending the length of my drag pipes and i want to make something i can slide in and quiet em up.
Sorry I missed you one liner in the thread. Just went looking of the photos of the baffles. can't believe I didn't take any.

so i have just done a quick sketch of what I was working off. Sizes are from memory.

the cobra are a bit of a mystery, i thought they were speedsters and order some super quiet cobra baffles from Crusercustomizing.com. When they arrived they simply did not fit. They were way to long and did not push in far enough due to the step down in the pipes for the power ports.

So i started removing sections until I found the tone i was after, then made up new ones that where slightly smaller internally, but allowed more flow around the out side of the baffle. i also included a wool wrapped section. the smaller inside pipe also help with the sliding into the pipes once the wool was on the baffle.

sketch attached

john.


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
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12-17-2014, 10:27 AM,
#7
RE: Carb change after AIs removal.
(12-17-2014, 06:53 AM)johnvelo Wrote: Been riding the bike with these baffles and the AIs hoses plugged for a few 100 miles. Only since removing the AIS totally and installing the barron's plug kit has the whistle started.
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood - I thought you'd done the baffles and AIS at the same time.

So, yeah, that is a puzzler. AIS removal shouldn't have affected exhaust note that much, especially not since they'd been blocked anyway. If it's a whistling sound I wonder if one of the caps didn't fit perfectly tight or has a small leak? I imagine you probably checked that, though.
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
12-17-2014, 06:32 PM,
#8
RE: Carb change after AIs removal.
(12-17-2014, 10:27 AM)OldePhart Wrote:
(12-17-2014, 06:53 AM)johnvelo Wrote: Been riding the bike with these baffles and the AIs hoses plugged for a few 100 miles. Only since removing the AIS totally and installing the barron's plug kit has the whistle started.
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood - I thought you'd done the baffles and AIS at the same time.

So, yeah, that is a puzzler. AIS removal shouldn't have affected exhaust note that much, especially not since they'd been blocked anyway. If it's a whistling sound I wonder if one of the caps didn't fit perfectly tight or has a small leak? I imagine you probably checked that, though.
No problem at all, that's what forums are for. sharing ideas and thoughts.

it is odd, no leaking around the plugs at all, now exhaust fumes or pressure felt or heard around the plugs. the note is purely coming from the end of the Cobra's at idle only when warm.

I would like to say it cute, but it sounds like an old school bus.

will do my tune this afternoon and see how she sounds. Worst case I may look at a new exhaust as these ones tag the road on round-a-bouts. plus the old guy i bought the bike off over tightened the pipes and bent the exhaust studs. new pipes will give me the chance to fix that too. it just wasn't in the budget this quarter.

john.
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12-18-2014, 03:37 AM,
#9
Flag_red  RE: Carb change after AIs removal.
(12-17-2014, 06:32 PM)johnvelo Wrote:
(12-17-2014, 10:27 AM)OldePhart Wrote:
(12-17-2014, 06:53 AM)johnvelo Wrote: Been riding the bike with these baffles and the AIs hoses plugged for a few 100 miles. Only since removing the AIS totally and installing the barron's plug kit has the whistle started.
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood - I thought you'd done the baffles and AIS at the same time.

So, yeah, that is a puzzler. AIS removal shouldn't have affected exhaust note that much, especially not since they'd been blocked anyway. If it's a whistling sound I wonder if one of the caps didn't fit perfectly tight or has a small leak? I imagine you probably checked that, though.
No problem at all, that's what forums are for. sharing ideas and thoughts.

it is odd, no leaking around the plugs at all, now exhaust fumes or pressure felt or heard around the plugs. the note is purely coming from the end of the Cobra's at idle only when warm.

I would like to say it cute, but it sounds like an old school bus.

will do my tune this afternoon and see how she sounds. Worst case I may look at a new exhaust as these ones tag the road on round-a-bouts. plus the old guy i bought the bike off over tightened the pipes and bent the exhaust studs. new pipes will give me the chance to fix that too. it just wasn't in the budget this quarter.

john.
Ok tune complete.

the rear carb was out of balance with the front carb, once settled, i worked on the mixture.

seated the idle jets then came out two turns, found 2 3/4 turns to be sweat. thats a 1/4 more than the dyno-jet suggested stage 1 kit that is in the bike.

now, she sounds sweat with that lovely carbied potato sound going on.

much sweater.

John.
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12-18-2014, 08:15 AM, (This post was last modified: 12-18-2014, 08:27 AM by nick59.)
#10
RE: Carb change after AIs removal.
idle should be 1000 to 1050 rpms,lot of guys turn idle down to get that loping sound.vstars need higher idle to keep oil pressure to the cams.https://sites.google.com/site/vstar1100kb/home/new-owner-must-do-list
2007 1100 custom,cobra longs and pods,doubled clutch spring.
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12-18-2014, 10:50 AM,
#11
RE: Carb change after AIs removal.
(12-18-2014, 08:15 AM)nick59 Wrote: idle should be 1000 to 1050 rpms,lot of guys turn idle down to get that loping sound.vstars need higher idle to keep oil pressure to the cams.https://sites.google.com/site/vstar1100kb/home/new-owner-must-do-list
Thanks for the heads up, I will make the adjustment to suit.

John.
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12-18-2014, 11:53 AM,
#12
RE: Carb change after AIs removal.
@Keith - yeah...I saw a YouTube video the other day from that used motorcycle place in Arlington. They had an 1100 or 1300, I don't recall which, and the salesman was doing a walkaround and talking about how they have a full service shop and inspect and tune every bike before they sell it. The bike (with between 10k and 20k miles on it) was idling really low and I'm thinking: yeah, there's trouble waiting for you to ride it off the lot...and remind me never to have my bike serviced at your place...

John
===========================
2011 V-Star 650 Custom (new in fall 2013)
V&H Cruzer Pipes, Memphis Shades Bat Wing, Floorboards, Highway Bars,
Locking Bags, Tail Rack, LED Signals & Aux Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator,
Brake Light Modulator, 5/8" Gel Pad Under Upholstery.
Reply
12-18-2014, 12:27 PM,
#13
RE: Carb change after AIs removal.
yeah, your favorite dealership for sure @OldePhart. beginning to wonder if can trust any of them, are all of them stealerships?

yeah just removing the system should not have affected the carbs at all since was already disabled, guess just was close to getting out of sync then just happened at the same time.
2006 VStar Stratoliner, Freedom Performance split dual exhaust, Mustang seats, Sissy bar with back rack, bolted saddlebags to mounts.
Life's tough .. it's even tougher if you're stupid. - John Wayne

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