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04-11-2016, 10:33 PM,
#1
electric issue
Good evening everyone, my name is Tom Mangan and I am actually writing on behalf of my son, also Tom Mangan
Last year his VStar did not get much use because it had a bad battery late in the year we replaced the battery rode the bike several times life was good this spring on the warm day we had here in new your we decided to fire the bike up and take it for a ride. The bike behaved as though the battery was dead so we jumped it. it ran rough and erratically and only with partial choke.
at the corner 1/4 mile from his house it stalled had to jump it again and after several iterations of this we gave up and put the bike in the garage with a trickle charger on it.
a couple days later we went to start it turn the key nothing no lights of any kind. we assume the 6 month old battery is bad so we remove and take it back to place of purchase. they offer to check the battery for us so of course we say yes. he comes back in about 10 min and says are your sure you brought me the right battery because this was fully charged when I tested it and I load tested it and it load tested fine. an interstate battery purchased from the local interstate shop.
I take the battery back clean all the terminals and check all the easily accessible connections and reinstall the battery same issue turn the key nothing hook the charger to everything comes on and we ran it in the garage for 20 more min. shut it off turn the key nothing.
the only test I have performed so far is to measure the battery voltage with the key off 14.3 turn the key on voltage drops to 0
does anybody have any ideas?
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04-12-2016, 05:31 PM,
#2
RE: electric issue
(04-11-2016, 10:33 PM)Tmangan3 Wrote: Good evening everyone, my name is Tom Mangan and I am actually writing on behalf of my son, also Tom Mangan
Last year his VStar did not get much use because it had a bad battery late in the year we replaced the battery rode the bike several times life was good this spring on the warm day we had here in new your we decided to fire the bike up and take it for a ride. The bike behaved as though the battery was dead so we jumped it. it ran rough and erratically and only with partial choke.
at the corner 1/4 mile from his house it stalled had to jump it again and after several iterations of this we gave up and put the bike in the garage with a trickle charger on it.
a couple days later we went to start it turn the key nothing no lights of any kind. we assume the 6 month old battery is bad so we remove and take it back to place of purchase. they offer to check the battery for us so of course we say yes. he comes back in about 10 min and says are your sure you brought me the right battery because this was fully charged when I tested it and I load tested it and it load tested fine. an interstate battery purchased from the local interstate shop.
I take the battery back clean all the terminals and check all the easily accessible connections and reinstall the battery same issue turn the key nothing hook the charger to everything comes on and we ran it in the garage for 20 more min. shut it off turn the key nothing.
the only test I have performed so far is to measure the battery voltage with the key off 14.3 turn the key on voltage drops to 0
does anybody have any ideas?
that batterys bad or you volt meter isn't working right, the standing voltage shouldn't be higher than 12.6-12.8 and shouldn't drop to less than 11.6 with the starter cranking. are you checking voltage right at the battery terminals or another location. 14.3 should be the voltage with engine running at speed 3000-5000 rpm
Lightbulb dumb bikers don't get to be old bikers
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04-12-2016, 05:43 PM,
#3
electric issue
Batteries can have full voltage but not have the required amperage. Tested under a load usually identifies that problem though. I've had this happen with cars several times. It takes way more than 10 minutes to test for that issue. Have them do the hour+ long deep cycle test.

Volt meters test voltage difference between the two test points. 14v open is normal as is 0v closed with no load.



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04-12-2016, 10:39 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-12-2016, 10:43 PM by pauli466.)
#4
RE: electric issue
(04-12-2016, 05:43 PM)Marty8613 Wrote: Batteries can have full voltage but not have the required amperage. Tested under a load usually identifies that problem though. I've had this happen with cars several times. It takes way more than 10 minutes to test for that issue. Have them do the hour+ long deep cycle test.

Volt meters test voltage difference between the two test points. 14v open is normal as is 0v closed with no load.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
14 volts open never hear that one before please explain exactly were each meter lead is connected to arive at that value. i'v never seen a 12 volt battery have 14 volts unless something was charging it like a batt charger or an alt. as soon as you put volt meter test leads on battery posts your closing the circuit through the meter. an open only has potential not current.
Lightbulb dumb bikers don't get to be old bikers
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04-13-2016, 05:42 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-13-2016, 05:45 AM by Tmangan3.)
#5
RE: electric issue
Gentlemen thank you for your replies. In responce I went back to interstate and had them give me a new battery, same issue. So as further diagnostics I discovered that next to the battery is a compartment with 2 30 amp fuses, both good, and a white plug with 3 wires coming out of it on red one blue and I can't remember the color of the third. i pulled that connector apart and with the key off the red wire has voltage and with the key on all three have voltage. So I reconnected the plug and attached the jump box. With the key on the red wire and the wire who's color I can't remember both have voltage but the blue wire does not. Yes I'm sure I was testing in a good spot.

Next diagnostic test I used the jump box and started the bike and measured the voltage at the battery. 5.7 v on average.

Any additional ideas anybody has would be greatly appreciated

Oops I missed a question I am measuring the voltage right at the battery. I have tested it both on the leads from the bike and right on the batter terminals with the same result. I have both an extensive electrical background and very expensive test equipment
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04-13-2016, 10:51 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-13-2016, 11:14 AM by pauli466.)
#6
RE: electric issue
(04-13-2016, 05:42 AM)Tmangan3 Wrote: Gentlemen thank you for your replies. In responce I went back to interstate and had them give me a new battery, same issue. So as further diagnostics I discovered that next to the battery is a compartment with 2 30 amp fuses, both good, and a white plug with 3 wires coming out of it on red one blue and I can't remember the color of the third. i pulled that connector apart and with the key off the red wire has voltage and with the key on all three have voltage. So I reconnected the plug and attached the jump box. With the key on the red wire and the wire who's color I can't remember both have voltage but the blue wire does not. Yes I'm sure I was testing in a good spot.

Next diagnostic test I used the jump box and started the bike and measured the voltage at the battery. 5.7 v on average.

Any additional ideas anybody has would be greatly appreciated

Oops I missed a question I am measuring the voltage right at the battery. I have tested it both on the leads from the bike and right on the batter terminals with the same result. I have both an extensive electrical background and very expensive test equipment
Lightbulb dumb bikers don't get to be old bikers
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04-13-2016, 12:11 PM,
#7
electric issue
The weird thing is that it will jump, but not work with a known good battery. Are you sure you are using the correct battery rating and type?

Won't start, runs rough when started. These indicate the battery is under powered. Which model VStar do you have so we can check minimum requirements?


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04-14-2016, 06:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 04-14-2016, 06:01 PM by Tmangan3.)
#8
RE: electric issue
It's an 04 650. I would also like to point out that everything was fine in November when we stopped riding it. Whatever this is it went bad over the winter

Whatever's bad it is a component that gets energized when you turn on the key. No other action is necessary for this to present itself
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04-15-2016, 04:36 AM,
#9
RE: electric issue
A couple of things come to mind to look at. I am new to Vstars but not electrical issues. Look for a bad ground first at the ground cable going to the battery. If works when charging, it may just be providing enough to to overcome a bad ground..oSimplest of the two ideas. If the ground is good. Take the positive cable off battery hook meter to battery and the unhooked terminal, a series connection, set the meter to read amperage and turn key on and see if there is a load being drawn. If there is, then need to see whAt is drawing that much of a load. Could be a few things but a Check of the stator would be my first check. If you have jumped this bike a lot, and had a real low battery at one time, could have fried the stator and is drawing a lot of current due to a short in it, most likely to ground. But, one would think that would blow a fuse. See what you come up with and let me know. I'm curious too to see what this is. Especially since the battery has been removed from the equation.
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04-15-2016, 10:18 PM,
#10
RE: electric issue
(04-15-2016, 04:36 AM)ECM747X Wrote: A couple of things come to mind to look at. I am new to Vstars but not electrical issues. Look for a bad ground first at the ground cable going to the battery. If works when charging, it may just be providing enough to to overcome a bad ground..oSimplest of the two ideas. If the ground is good. Take the positive cable off battery hook meter to battery and the unhooked terminal, a series connection, set the meter to read amperage and turn key on and see if there is a load being drawn. If there is, then need to see whAt is drawing that much of a load. Could be a few things but a Check of the stator would be my first check. If you have jumped this bike a lot, and had a real low battery at one time, could have fried the stator and is drawing a lot of current due to a short in it, most likely to ground. But, one would think that would blow a fuse. See what you come up with and let me know. I'm curious too to see what this is. Especially since the battery has been removed from the equation.
one bad coil in a stator will knock out 1/3 of its charging capacity it can still show 14volts charging capacity but the wattage/amperage wont be enough to keep the battery up. ohms testing each of the three stator wires is the only way to know for sure. each wire is capable of delivering 77 watts for a total stator output of 231 watts divided by 13 volts gives the stator about 18 charging amps if all is well
Lightbulb dumb bikers don't get to be old bikers
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